Unlocking Bitcoin’s Potential with Layer-2 featuring Jeff Boortz – Blockstream Talk #27

Welcome back to blockstream talk today We're speaking with Jeff Bortz Chief Product officer at blockstream block Stream has an extremely wide offering of Products and services from satellites to Mining to wallets and layer 2 Solutions And pretty much everything else in Between it's one of the fullest product Offerings in the Bitcoin space Jeff Brings 20 years of experience in product Management including time at large tech Companies like Google to help oversee Block stream's product portfolio with a Specific focus on the software side in This conversation we talked about Blockstream's vision of financial Services operating on bitcoin's Decentralized infrastructure and how This not only streamlines the Legacy System by removing it efficiencies but Also returns more control to users and Investors at a lower cost and with Improved confidentiality We also looked at blockstream's plans to Integrate non-custodial lightning Functionality into blockstream's green Wallet via green light meaning that both Of bitcoin's major layer 2 Solutions Liquid and lightning would be available From a single wallet and finally we also Touched on some of the unique features Of the Jade Hardware wallet and plans to Support non-custodial trading Functionalities within the wallet enjoy

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The show and let us know what you think In the comments below Welcome to the show Jeff thanks for Taking the time to do this today thanks For having me Jesse it's good to see you Again maybe to set the stage for today's Conversation you could run us through Quickly your your background and your Role as Chief product officer at Blockstream yeah of course Um so as Chief product officer I'm Really responsible for all the software Efforts at the company my job is to kind Of help set the strategy Define the Priorities for the teams uh and build The roadmap of the things that we want To work on Of course at block stream I'm working With a lot of people that are a lot Smarter than me so a lot of times my job Is really about you know synthesizing People's insights and ideas trying to Apply some business context to that and Then reflecting it back as a as a Coherent plan that we that we can Execute against block stream has a Really wide variety of products and Services you know from satellites to Bitcoin mining to even you know Bitcoin Mining Hardware wallets protocol Research where do you where do you focus Your time within all of that well my Most of my focus is on software so Um there's still quite a broad portfolio

Of things that we're doing just within The software space Um but I guess you could think of it as Kind of starting with the layer 2 Platform work that we do for liquid and Lightning and the underlying kind of Open Source implementations that support Those networks and then uh we we provide A variety of services on top of those Platforms Um things that help Enterprises operate On the networks custody solutions for End users as well so I try to think of It as a coherent vertical stack of of Products that all work together to kind Of deliver the value that starts from Those platforms yeah I was thinking About it this morning because really When you think about within the Bitcoin Ecosystem I don't think there's another Company that has such a wide variety of Products and services certainly not in Bitcoin and probably not in the whole Crypto space so I mean I imagine a large Part of your time is kind of going Through that Matrix and trying to find Synergies between these various services And products well actually the the Products actually have a lot of synergy Kind of baked in that they've kind of Been built layer by layer to ensure that We can deliver the value to end users so You know it's not enough just to have a Um

Kind of a protocol that lets you Sort of provide a layer 2 solution it's It's also helpful to build the Infrastructure on top of that that lets More businesses build on it lets more Users access it and so you know again to Me it's kind of a vertical stack of Features that that all actually end up Being you know For an end user kind of one cohesive Uh thing that they can use to you know Do do different things with Bitcoin than You can do on the main chain yeah so how Do you guys look at the role of layer Two solutions you know like lightning And liquid in addressing Bitcoin Scalability and then also facilitating Broader adoption as you are surely aware Um you know most of what we do at Bitcoin at blockstream is about about uh You know furthering uh what you can do With Bitcoin and furthering the adoption Of Bitcoin and definitely our platforms Are you know things that extend the Utility and the usefulness of Bitcoin in Different ways if you think about Lightning kind of adding a Commerce and Payments layer to bitcoin that can Really scale and liquid adding a bunch Of you know Financial capabilities kind Of a financial layer to bitcoin as well Um and so I think you know and actually Everything we do at Bitcoin starting From kind of our research on the

Protocol Uh delivering cryptographic enhancements That improve security and privacy for For users mining Bitcoin which helps Contribute to the security of the Network it's it's all you know Stacks up To help make Bitcoin stronger and and Further the use of Bitcoin but I Actually think it's you know that's sort Of the mission-driven way of looking at What we do as a company but Um you know as the product lead I also Need to think about kind of who our Users are and I think there's also kind Of a really nice Customer driven way to describe what We're doing and that starts from looking At kind of the landscape you know of Um how people engage with uh Financial Infrastructure today and you know a lot Of the Businesses in in every industry are are Operating on financial infrastructure That is really opaque uh it's arguably Quite outdated and it comes with a lot Of costs for people right you know like The the time it takes for transactions To settle Um that people are just so used to now Really ties up liquidity the the kind of Lack of transparency in any transaction Presents all kinds of risks for users Counterparty risk making it very Difficult to

Um you know ensure that you're not going To lose funds there's Um a lot of intermediaries in the system As it exists today and so all of those Intermediaries have access to you know Information that you probably don't want Them to not have they can they can seek Rent because they're in a privileged Position in terms of processing Transactions they can front run trading All of these problems that that kind of Are are just part of business as usual For for most uh companies and people and We finally have you know technology and Solutions that we can deliver that can Actually Really radically redefine how how these Systems operate and work and so I think A lot of you know Banks and financial Institutions are are starting to Question whether these costs are Necessary Uh and and they're they're looking for Alternatives and and that's where you Know not just Bitcoin but really all Blockchains have kind of emerged as this New opportunity Um but then those bring their own sets Of challenges for for these institutions You know and trying to figure out how They can use the systems and stay kind Of compliant with the rules and Regulations that they're facing Um facing new security risks new kinds

Of You know ways that the system can fail Or or funds could be lost and so when I Think about what block stream is doing We're delivering that infrastructure That that uh Those new capabilities that that Eliminate the need to kind of trust Intermediaries make the whole system More efficient and we're doing that on a Bit Bitcoin based platform which we Think offers the best security and Really the best compliance picture for For users yeah I think certainly the the Legacy system is very much focused it's Very much almost driven by these Intermediate intermediaries that are More focused on kind of perpetuating Their existence than in providing a Product or a service it's maybe what you Know from a Securities perspective that What issuers are looking for or what Investors are looking for so yeah I Think on the security side certainly you Know things like transfer restricted Assets that's just a great way to kind Of pull out a lot of the community Intermediaries and allow issuers and Investors to act more directly Um And the idea of being able to Self-custody assets whether it's you Know whether it's tokenized gold like Xaut or if it's something like the block

Stream mining note that is such a Radical departure from the way the Legacy system operates in terms of Custody and the flexibility of users and I really see it as returning a lot of Control to investors and users that's That's been eroded over the past you Know 10 20 30 years absolutely and and You know thinking about all those Intermediaries and all their vested Interest in kind of preserving the System as it exists today it really Makes you realize how early we are in This process of trying to kind of Transform these industries and change The way they operate and you know Finding ways to deliver enough value That it's it's so compelling that the Institutions the issuers the investors They all are demanding something better To To operate on your point about liquidity And Capital Management is another really Good one too you know the benefits of Real-time settlement are such a massive Step Up in terms of how you can manage Your capital and how you can churn your Capital as well too you know if you're a Hedge fund and you invest in you know Omaha of course located in Taiwan if you Sell your tsmc on Friday it's t plus two So you don't get your cash until next Week but if you're trading on a Tokenized platform you know it settles

Immediately you get your cash right away And then you can do something else with That cash so from a risk management and A Capital Management perspective that on A zone is just very compelling I think To to the people actually using the System to the investors if you're a Global business and you're dealing with Cash and multiple jurisdictions Um you know just managing your your Balance sheet and keeping cash where you Need it is is quite a tricky Challenge And you know I think when we look at Opportunities for systems like liquid And lightning we really see a way that Enterprises could make use of this Technology purely for the like global Borderless settlement benefits uh and And move value around but even between Their own entities or or across the Federation of entities in a really Efficient way that could you know Dramatically reduce those costs Definitely what about green light how Does green light fit into Layer Two Adoption Well green light uh Plain and simple just makes it easier For people to get on the lightning Network so green light is a lightning as A service solution it hosts a lightning Node for a customer usually like a Merchant or an Enterprise that wants Access to the network in in the cloud

And one of the ways that's like one of The special things about it really is That we built green light based on our Own implementation of the lightning Specification called core lightning and Core lightning was designed to be very Modular so like all the component pieces Of a lightning node are their own little Modules and that means that we can take A lightning node put it on put it in the Cloud host it run manage all of the kind Of complexities of setting it up Provisioning scaling all these things But one module is not in our control and That is the signing module so the Private keys for any individual user They control they manage on their own And they sign remotely and so the nice Thing about green light is that it Provides all of the convenience of a Hosted solution but still enables the The user of the node to have full Control of their coins And and to kind of have that extra Security layer when they're operating on Lightning is there an integration Planned with block stream green yes Absolutely we've uh in fact we announced Earlier this summer at a event Um the the upcoming integration of green Light into block stream green the way That we'll look for users is basically Just that you have a lightning you'll Have access to lightning in your wallet

Um but it's nice it's it's purely you Know I Still Remains of pure Self-custody solution and you know the Green light service is managing the Complexity of spinning up your node when You need it making sure that you know Your funds are are safe and then you get To just you know use lightning as a as An end user kind of without having to Keep track of any of that complexity Uh now this is not fully available yet But we are uh we're kind of ironing Out The Kinks we we launched it in an Experimental way so we have a small set Of users who can access it and play with It Um and we're expecting to make it fully Available Uh sometime in in the next you know few Months that's really cool because then Through green you'll have access to both Of the major layer two solutions for Bitcoin right you'll have liquid and Lightning in the same wallet it's a Really unique offering I mean we did Another uh thing with green earlier this Year uh kind of in anticipation of this This progress that we're making where we Essentially unified everything in the Wallet under kind of one set of keys so Basically when you create a new wallet With block stream green you can have a Lightning account a liquid account and a Bitcoin on chain account like all

Together in one wallet managed by one Set of keys and you have all this kind Of convenience and power at your Disposal and it's honestly it's kind of Fun to use so what on the on the liquid Network what are the main use cases you Guys are interested in seeing developed On the liquid Network first of all Liquid is is had a really exciting year Um I think there's been a Diversification of the kinds of things That people are doing on the platform Which is which is awesome them and I'm Sure that I would you know Miss Something if I if I start enumerating Different use cases but I'll talk about A few that I think are are interesting Just from from different points of view Um so I guess you know in general of Course we think of liquid at you know One of its like superpowers is that it's A multi-asset platform and that means That you can not only can you you know Peg Bitcoin into the network but then You can trade it with all kinds of other Assets and the kinds of assets that we Really Envision being kind of well Suited for liquid are you know those From real financial institutions trying To to move their financial operations Onto a blockchain things like security Tokens bonds Um you know lending contracts things of That nature and we've started to see

Some you know traction with those kinds Of use cases which is really exciting to Us so Um you know one example is that has Grown quite a bit this year comes from Mexico there's a company called Midfield That has essentially Uh created a digital representation of These promissory notes which are kind of Lending agreements uh that that are very Commonly used in Mexico Um and the promissory note the ownership Of that has now sort of been it's it's Represented on the blockchain and what's Powerful about that is now that the um The people that are making these loans Like lending money to small to Medium-sized businesses or end users When they run out of capital they can Take all of the outstanding promissory Notes that they've issued they can Package them up and they can sell them And and then they can get access to more Capital and kind of keep the liquidity Flowing and that's you know a great way To kind of for them to grow their Business but you know it's much more Powerful when you do it in blog on a Blockchain because now there's a Guarantee that you know there's a record Of ownership and and the the person Who's buying those notes doesn't have to Worry if they've actually also been Loaned out to somebody else there's you

Know that that risk is not there and so It just makes the whole system more Efficient So that's one that's one really cool Example yeah I think also the events of The last 16 or 18 months where we've Seen so many Um you know kind of counterparty risks Explode in investors faces I think that Really also brings Um highlights the original value Proposition of of liquid which was just Moving you know originally Bitcoin and Then later usdt moving that around Faster cheaper and more confidential More confidentially as well so I feel Like that's really kind of pushed the Liquid use case back front and center It's true I mean another uh another Launch that happened this year was from Our friends at crypto Garage in Japan And they they've been working on this Kind of like swap service for some time Called settlenet but they finally pushed It live in production this year and it's Essentially a way for you know exchanges Or kind of large buyers to Non-custodially trade swap their Japanese Yen stable coin for liquid Bitcoin so they can use it as a trading Strategy G and then you know at some Point when they have accrued whatever Amount they want they can just do one Peg out to kind of convert that Bitcoin

Into Cold Storage but this gives them Kind of that Um that lower counterparty risk on the Trade and an ability to execute the Entire thing without any uh custody risk As well yeah so as I mentioned the the Liquid you know value atomics to other Things I think is speed price and Confidentiality and I think speed and Price is something everyone's very Familiar with but what about the Confidentiality I think maybe that could Be sometimes misunderstood by people so Do you want to talk a little bit about What confidential transactions are why They're important and then you know what Applications does that maybe enable as Well I mean I think this is one of the Underappreciated features that that Liquid offers Um so what confidential transactions Means is that you know on The Ledger on The on the public publicly visible Blockchain it is not possible for a Third party to observe the type of asset That's involved in any transaction or The amount of that asset so they can Still see that a transaction happened But pieces of that are confidential that Information is still obviously known to The two counterparties that conducted The trade and there is a way to unblind That for auditing purposes and and other Kinds of kind of accounting reasons but

For the participants of the network it There's a lot more privacy Um and you know again if you think about Liquid as being kind of the financial Layer for Bitcoin I think privacy you Know I think the fact that privacy Hasn't mattered more uh to more of these Kind of blockchains of these Solutions So far again shows you how early we are I mean There's not really a large-scale Financial institution that would be Comfortable having all of their Positions and all of their assets known All of their trades broadcasted to a Mempool before the uh the trade is Actually executed giving other parties The opportunity to jump in and maybe Front run that trade and so liquid has Basically solved this they've they've Put this solution in place it's been Running for years it's battle tested and Proven and and it's really one of the Unique features of the network today Yeah definitely yeah I think that's part Of the reason you know why a lot of Larger Traders will use custodians right Just because you can just do kind of an Excel spreadsheet thing in the back end To move your positions around and you're Not broadcasting into the market but With that structure you know as we've Seen over the last 16 or 18 months There's a lot of counterparty risk and

Sometimes that can surprise you in Really unexpected ways so the the liquid Solution is is is just a really good Um you know upgrade on that kind of idea So totally agree the Jade Harbor wall I Wanted to talk to talk about that as Well that's another really cool block Stream product I think both in terms of Ergonomics it's a really good size and It works really well and functionality As well what do you see as the main Features for Jade that really Differentiate it from other Hardware Wallets uh we're really proud of Jade And we've been spending a lot of time Working on it and improving it and I Think people are starting to notice so It's been really fun to uh to see Jade Get more appreciated in the market Um you know we when we built Jade we had A couple goals in mind like number one Is that we wanted to make sure we could Deliver something that was accessible to A wide range of users and so we thought A lot about how we could build a product That Um would you know it's not it's not a Cheap product but it was it's not that Expensive to build it doesn't use as Many kind of like fancy components under The hood but it still delivers a great Deal of security And Jade's uh also have like a have a Nice color display on on the front of

Them so that you have more real estate To kind of help walk a user through the Steps of using a hardware wallet and Then I think critically Jades have a Camera this is something that we've Really been leaning into quite a bit Which is that you know people can use The camera to scan QR codes and for a Lot of users that's exciting because it Means they don't have to plug their Jade In as often to you know um To when they're trying to sign a Transaction that provides an extra kind Of layer of security or kind of reduces The attack surface for a j people like To use it in an air-gapped way they say Um and that's you know that's been a Really popular uh feature and a benefit That we didn't actually anticipate from That Um is that it also really increases the Interoperability of Jade with other Wallets so you know QR codes are Basically a standard and now you can set Up your Jade and use it with a variety Of Bitcoin wallets that support QR codes And so I think it's also taken off a bit Because It's it's so flexible and you can use it With you know whatever wallet you choose Yeah it's funny it's like you know You're getting older when screen size is Like a key factor you consider in like Buying a product like I just can't read

A nano3 Unfortunately even the Jade is a little Hard for me to read it's it's My but we've actually been working on That so like one of the you know we're Really excited we're going to release a Um an update to the the product actually Next week where the legibility will Greatly improve and I think that will Help some of the older bitcoiners so What about Um uh integrating Jade with Non-custodial trading for liquid assets Yeah so again this kind of ties back to The point I was making that you know Really when we think about all of our Products that we're working on we want Them to kind of work in a cohesive way So that there's there's Synergy across Them and they work together really well Um so you know one of the benefits of Being able to use the liquid network With its multiple assets involved and Being able to do atomic swaps in a Single transaction is that trading use Case and so we've been working with Um An order book solution from side swap That enables you to basically uh hold Hold your assets on your Jade place an Order on this peer-to-peer order book And then when the transaction is ready To close when you have a you know Somebody on the other end execute the

Trade uh fully non-custodially so you Never you know basically You have full control of your assets at Every step in the in the transaction Until you actually executed the trade And that's you know something that uh Jade now supports and and we've been Working with the sideswap team to make Sure that it's available for every kind Of asset that they that they list on Their order but so I guess kind of Looking at the Block stream you know Broader Mission straight statement Um block stream sees the future of Financial services operating on Bitcoin's decentralized infrastructure And this is kind of a big question but What is the benefit there to users in Terms of control and privacy well first Of all I think I think it's important to Clarify that Um The word decentralized means a lot of Different things or actually it's really Kind of a an aspiration something that We're that we're aspiring to with a lot Of the different solutions that we Provide but you don't need the same Level of decentralization for everything Um you know Bitcoin itself I think is Arguably something that that needs the The most amount of decentralization in Order to help protect its properties and Sort of make it corruption resistant you

Know it's it's got its own Um it's very hard to change Bitcoin and That's actually a feature an important Feature but when you think about you Know using Bitcoin in a in a financial Transaction for instance so I'll talk About liquid for a moment Um you know liquid is a platform of that Has a mix of assets on it and most of Those assets other than Bitcoin have an Issuer in fact all of them have an Issuer okay so there's already a Centralization and a trust involved in In using these other assets and so you Know look liquid operates with different Trade-offs than the Bitcoin Network Itself you can move your Bitcoin into Liquid and then trade it with all these Other assets there's a higher degree of Trust that you're placing in kind of Every step of that operation and then Only when you're kind of done you can Always settle back to the the main chain For your for your Bitcoin The point is that like not everything is Going to be in the in the future is Going to be purely decentralized it will Depend on the nature of what it is You're trying to do if you're if you're Working with capital markets there's There's going to be an element of you Know centralization that's just that's Just different but what we see is that Our technology in Bitcoin as the

Foundation can really push the Boundaries and minimize the trust Required by all the actors and Participants in the system giving them You know the maximum amount of kind of Uh empowerment and self-sovereignty that That is appropriate for whatever Activity they're trying to do Um and and in doing so it will you know Greatly increase the efficiency of the Systems and and the inclusivity of the Systems as well yeah that's a great Point I think on Securities it's really Difficult to get away from some degree Of centralization Um you know you have a regulator even if You're decentralized to the point where You didn't need a regulator you still Have issuers and you know they're Issuing Securities and somebody needs to Be responsible for that Um so I think that's something that's That's difficult to get away from it I Think the BMN is a really good example Of that because things like Bearer Securities I think are just probably not Going to be possible there's not a Regulator around that's going to sign Off on those but the white list is a Really good compromise because once you Get out added to the white list you know The the platform is meant it's kyc AML Obligations and then the user gets a lot Of the benefits of a bearer security

Right you're able to you know Self-custody it you can move it around Peer-to-peer the BMN of course is Trading peer-to-peer in a telegram chat Um because everybody's in a whitelisted Ecosystem and then all of those other Benefits Arbitrage on other platforms so I think that's you know it's not 100 Decentralized but that's probably not Possible and this is a really good Compromise I think which returns a lot Of control to users it doesn't it Doesn't invalidate the benefits you get Of being able to trade it uh on a Network that that has Um all of these kind of like Self-custody uh the ability to do swaps The ability to kind of secure secure all Your assets however you see fit Um but uh you know it's gonna it's Always going to have that that um That trust component to it when it comes To the nature of the asset itself and And that's fine like that's that's Actually the point of those assets is That you know they're they're important Components of how businesses operate how They get access to funds Um and in a world where Bitcoin is more Central and kind of utilized as a medium Of trading you you want to make sure That Bitcoin can be the the kind of Underlying asset that that people are Using when they're conducting these

Kinds of capital markets activities yeah Definitely I think liquid has a lot of Really smart compromises I think the Confidential transactions are another One because I think you know the full Privacy coins that's a bit of a red flag And we've seen another address number of Jurisdictions kind of cracked on on Those and banned those completely but if You if you block kind of the size and Type of the transaction so it's Confidential from that perspective but You allow Regulators a means where they Can you know unblind it uh or or you Know for issuers to be able to audit What's going on I think that that's a Really reasonable compromise that brings A lot of benefits to users but it's Still Um you know something that you can you Can you're not going to get in trouble With from the Legacy system that's right Yeah the um the goal with liquid is to Make sure that it's easy for Uh you know issuers financial Institutions to operate on that Network And stay kind of in in bounds like stay In the rules of compliance that matter To them Um and you know it's conceivable that You know for some you know Banks and Larger institutions it's still not they Don't actually still see a way to do That

Um and I think that's you know actually Where you know we think of liquid as a Really good proof point of how to use Elements so elements is the is the Software that powers liquid it's Deployed in the liquid case as a side Chain of Bitcoin but we also you know Think that there are interesting Applications for a Federation of banks That needs a more kind of private or Permissioned network a monk to trade Amongst themselves to establish a Completely stand-alone elements Network They can use anything they want as the Base currency they can Define their own Rules and kind of even more granularly Shape the the compliance framework to Whatever they they need are you you Mentioned Banks and intermediaries a Couple of times are you seeing actual Demand from those kind of players Because from my perspective I'm seeing Demand from investors and issuers and Then very little from the intermediaries Unless they're kind of second or third Tier and they're using they're looking For technology as a way to differentiate Themselves are you guys seeing something Different on your end if you look across The kind of The big the big Global Banks um they Almost all have you know a Cryptocurrency division uh now a lot of Times what they're doing is just looking

At cryptocurrencies as an asset class And trying to figure out how to give Their investors access to those but many Of them are also kind of incubating Different blockchain based Solutions and So you know this is of course Interesting to us because we're trying To build infrastructure that we think is Really actually well suited for for Their needs in the long run Um and so yes we've talked to you know Various Banks about you know the the Merits of uh elements and liquid and the Architecture there the security it Provides the compliance it provides Um and it's definitely a a segment that I think is a much harder sell but but One that would be very interesting to Um to work with I think block stream has A lot to offer those institutions in Terms of our domain expertise uh on you Know building these secure platforms and What kind of geographies is that Interest coming from is that like I Guess major Western Banks or is that Something more in Emerging Markets or More peripheral because again I've seen A lot of interest from outside the G7 And then less from within it well so Some of the examples I'm thinking of Which I I'll decline to share any names But they've actually been they've been You know in North America Um but I I do think that there are

Probably very realistic opportunities to Um find other jurisdictions where where The entities would be more ready to Adopt I do think that you know I think a Lot of the especially like the U.S banks Are waiting for Clarity on on what they Can do yeah I mean it's kind of cliche Within the technology interest industry To talk about banking the unbanked but I Do think that there's within Capital Markets there's also issuers and Investors that are unbanked there's Small mid-size Enterprises you know in Latin America and Africa and Central Asia that just don't have access to Global Capital markets so I think that's Another massive opportunity for liquid And for security tokens and for all of The stuff that we're working on as well Yeah that's what we're counting on you Guys for is to go help us uh Shake Up Stir Up interest in those markets I I do Agree that you know um the the tools That are available here can can provide Efficiencies and and potentially can be More game changing for uh assets that Today struggle to get access to Liquidity or or have other restrictions That you know impair them from being Traded you know on NASDAQ for instance What do you guys look forward to the Most for your your product pipeline for The next 12 or 16 months well I'm very Excited about uh you know the work we're

Doing uh on on Lightning so so getting Green light really broadly adopted into The hands of more users Um into the hands of more developers who Can build their own applications and Services on top of that Um we've seen a lot of interests and I Think there's like a a real nice Market Fit there that we would love to you know Lean into also very excited to bring That to Green users and kind of make Sure that people have access to Non-custodial lightning services so That's that's one area that's very Exciting to me Um we are doing a lot of cool things on On liquid as well I think one thing That's Kind of been a very long-running project For us Um and and will still be kind of a Mostly in the research domain but but Starting to to show signs of daylight Soon is something called Simplicity and Simplicity is kind of like an evil Evolution on the smart contract Contracting language for liquid Um in fact you know it's conceivable That it could ultimately be a smart Contract smart Contracting language for Bitcoin someday but you know I think the First step will be to deploy it on Liquid and start to demonstrate the Value there

Uh so what Simplicity is as I mentioned It's a smart Contracting language Um for most users it's not going to seem Simple it's kind of got a strange name In that regards but but what it does is It gives you as a smart contract Developer or author much higher Assurance that your contract is kind of Performing as you intended in fact there Are kind of mathematical proofs formal Verification that you can do to actually Guarantee that it that it works the way You intended for the range of scenarios That are plausible and if you think About moving large amounts of capital Onto blockchains and and really Depending on the blockchain to execute In a reliable and robust way you want That level of Um confidence and Trust in the in the System to deliver what what's intended To do so we think of it as really like a A smart Contracting list language built For kind of the mature financial Institutions of the world what's the Timeline on that for Simplicity being Integrated to liquid well the teams are Making really good progress recently and We hope to have Some kind of a deployment probably on a Test net by the end of the year that Will come complete with You know a nice uh set of documentation Specifications for developers some good

Examples of how you can use it you know Maybe some some real world applications Of products built on it just to Illustrate what it can do and from there We'll you know we have our work cut out For us to help really educate and bring A group of developers on board who can Make use of the the power of that Language so that's interesting so that's Another value proposition for liquid as Well as it kind of becomes a test tent For the Bitcoin main chain yeah there's There's definitely uh an angle there I Mean we've seen you know various things Happen on liquid that ultimately make Their way to the Bitcoin main chain I Think uh Adam has talked before about Segwit so a version I've said it wasn't Actually the same thing that was Deployed on bitcoin ultimately but a Version of Segway was kind of done first On liquid Um and and then you know I think we Learned a lot from that and then was Able to help kind of contribute to the The segwit release on Bitcoin and There's definitely other examples kind Of looking forward that that could be Similar in nature to that things that we Could do that possibly help You know uh Prove out new ways to to deal with Channel Management in in the lightning Network we could possibly demonstrate

Those on liquid because liquid has just A bit more programmability than Bitcoin We've been able to add some more op Codes and more scripting capabilities to That Network Um and so then that that makes it a good Test bed for Um you know exercising those OP codes And proving what they can be how they Can be useful we're coming up on time Here Jeff I want to thank you for the For taking time to join the show today And maybe we can have you on in a couple Of months um when we start getting the Integrations with green going and green Light I love that Jesse yeah thanks for Having me it was fun to talk about all The wild things that we're doing at Block stream you bet thanks a lot Foreign

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