Is Wooly Pooly Stealing Kaspa – 242

Let's talk about the largest pool fraud In history woolly pool a little bit here And and provide Some Crypto mining pool experience Dev Experience for myself As well as as you know how much of this Should you be worried about how much of It should you be worried about so this Came from Sir Dave a few days ago on the Caspa subreddit it says attention crypto Community the largest Casper pool wooly Pool has been stealing for six months 10 To 40 percent of all coins practically Open openly and in plain sight the Boldly and openly lie they have Accumulated huge funds which could lead To huge market manipulations today they Steal from miners tomorrow from holders Just one of the found wallets there are 135 million Casper coins worth two Million dollars the entire Russian Internet and YouTuber full of Revelations and my Forum threads and YouTube views are approaching 50 000 I'm Not even a blogger just the person who Uncovered the scheme so Um You know even as a content creator I can Tell you like the amount of views does Not give you any validity Um you know if you're a blockchain Dev That has been working on this if you own And run pools yourself uh and you want

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To show what you do with the pools and You you know these types of things would Be what I would be looking for in your Um resume for me to take you seriously So just to be clear that doesn't appear To be here Um it does say this is going to be a Long thread and all he did was take Several transactions with payouts Subtract the time between them and Calculate how much they were paid on Average per day and compared it to minor Stats readings This is not a good way to calculate okay So if we're talking about the test Method methodology here uh the test Methodology of comparing your payout uh Compared to a calculator is is Almost always going to be inaccurate for A multitude of reasons including but not Limited to of course difficulty of the Network Um latency to the mining pool uh the way The pool pays out and the timing of the Payouts right how often does the pool Pay out that sort of thing okay so if You can always utilize a calculator to Judge ballpark range but you can never Be certain that the calculator will be Accurate whatsoever right this is just Going to be The entire premise here okay Um you so I'm not a fan of how it was Calculated here like I said and we'll

Just continue to move on though So on woolly pool website there is a Page where addresses and statistics of The largest pool miners are publicly Displayed after analyzing several pages Of the largest miners he said they found The same thing in their payouts but once Again we're using a faulty calculator Potentially right a faulty tool a Potentially faulty tool usually faulty By the way uh to test Something to test further so we we the Problem I have with this is you've Already started with a flawed testing Methodology and then you're continuing That on so it's like I have evidence With a with a you know basically a bad Premise a bad foundation and so it's Like here's more evidence but it's still Based on on on Sand right not on a solid Foundation Um on The Woolly pool website there's a Page where addresses and statistics he Did go over that compiling all the data He collected and he posted his video on YouTube to be fair I didn't uh watch This YouTube video I did watch Um defy Django's video who's in chat Here as well Um compiling all the data he collected He says he posted his first video we Covered that next using the same method Which like I said is already flawed he Conducted a comparative analysis of

Payouts over the past few days between The four largest pools so all pool Percentages coincided with the Calculator this is where I guess we Could say all right so now we're getting Down to where I would say all right if You're if you're comparing uh one pool Payout to another pay pool payout then Yes we're getting closer to what I would Say is verifiable However here's where we kind of run into A couple issues too so let's talk about Timing and how long right so because We're going to also have to talk about The way that these pools calculate Payouts Um he goes on to say all pool Percentages coincide with the calculator While woolly pool underpaid by about 35 Percent this data is available for the Period from September 21st to the 25th As well as the period from September 13th to the 16th So we have to talk about length of test Here a little bit just to give some Perspective because their the pool Payout methods are going to adjust Whether or not each pool Pays out the same and this is because Depending on the pool software if it's Built either ground up or if you are you Know pulling pool software off of you Know just GitHub and then building on Top of that there's lots of different

Options there's not a ton of different Options There are different pool payout methods Which we have covered on this channel Will multiple this channel multiple Times ranging from PPS to PPL and S to a Whole bunch of different variations of All of those and a lot of what was Happening early on was utilizing Different pool payouts to incentivize Miners to not drop off of pools right Right and we've talked about this in the Past this meant that if you were more uh The longer you were on a pool though the More payout or heftier your shares Counted this is pretty common to Implement across the board Now should there be a disparity of 35 Percent not necessarily but it can get As high as that the amount of time to Actually determine this would be built Based on the back end of whatever pool You're mining to and so a a test for you Know two separate tests that are between Essentially uh it looks like five days In three days both separated you know if It was September 13th through September 25th maybe I'd be more inclined uh to Say it's a solid test but I do call into Question the amount of time uh spent Mining to these pools right and that is Really where we kind of run into some Issues as far as timing now he does have Links to some Google docs if you guys

Want to go check that out links are down In the description So he does say that he uh using a script He wrote he found the wallet the the Where the withdrawal of the stolen funds Come from their distribution wallet Established in 2017 octominer is an International mining hardware company They manufacture and engineer the best Mining equipment in the industry and Supply rigs to some of the largest Mining farms around the world their GPU Mining rigs also integrate with the top Crypto operating systems like Hive OS Minor stat and simple mining all parts Come with an international one-year Warranty exciting news they will be Adding Asic miners for sale to their Website soon and launching a new product Built specifically for Asic home miners Please visit octominer.com or email Support octominer.com for questions And here's where we have to explain how A mining Pool Works so that people are Understanding of how this functions And a mining pool you essentially have Two wallets okay Um and this is where things can get Extremely confusing for people that Don't understand mining pools you're Going to have your node wallet and then You're going to have your payment wallet The reason you have a payment wallet is Usually multiple there's multiple

Reasons why you would have a payment Wallet separate from your pool wallet One being security the obvious one right Because if you have a wallet for your Node wallet it's there people can kind Of find that node wallet so typically What will happen is the node would find A block it would go into the node right Because you're mining to that node Remember the miner is not mining to Their own node they're mining to a node That is controlled by somebody else then That node wallet will go ahead that that That my that mining pool wallet gets the Full payment then it takes that full Payment and it sends that full payment Out to a payment wallet then the payment Wallet using the mining software will Unlock calculate the shares and pay out The miners based on the shares it has Calculated okay the other reason why you Have this is not just security but Because of multiple nodes let's say you Have uh a mining pool that has a Location in the U.S in the EU maybe U.S East west EU all these separate ones Right well if a node in the East finds a Finds a wallet but you basically your Mining is part of a pool you're you're Still wanting to take the take the full Hash rate no matter where the miners are It's still going to need to send that to A payment processor and then calculate The shares across all nodes right so

It's going to calculate that share Across all of the all of the nodes that You're individually mining through there Are other more complicated structures For mining pools but this is the most Simple way that I can explain it to you Guys right so imagine this way right you Have a node here a node here node here Node no or node a b and c right in Different locations you're mining to Node C and the block is found on node a The block on node a takes that payment It sends it to a payment processor right A payment wallet then the mining Software will go through it'll calculate Your shares from node C and then still Pay you out on that block So it is not uncommon to see Distribution go from the node wallet to An outside wallet so the real question That we have to ask here then when we Get into this is if that wallet is Paying out right and that is where I Started to try to do some research my Research has not fully You know calculated out here but what we Can see we'll refresh here this is the Wallet in question it's already gone Down uh quite a bit since he originally Calculated it and there were payments Coming out of it right So here we'll go down here We just had one up that was that showed A payment coming out but depending on

The amount of blocks it can find a lot Of blocks and then pay it out and now That we're live I can't find one and Where they paid out but Fun stuff Anyways while it started paying out from Here uh when I was reviewing this you Saw it on that first page earlier I Should have just left that one up to Show the example but we're not going to Be able to show it again now So this is the wallet that I would pay Attention to for payouts I'm not Positive this is their payout wallet I Have started going through this to see What their payout wallet is okay Um the reason being that we have to Discuss all of this stuff and I'm Getting some issues over here because This is one of the payout wallets or one Of this was one of the node wallets Um the reason we have to talk about all Of this though is that once you start to Understand the way that it functions you Can understand that what happens most of The time when miners aren't getting paid Out is there's a miscalculation within The mining software right within the Actual code or within the configuration Files Or the payment processor breaks this can Happen because the wallet gets stuck in A locked state right so if there were Too many transactions going through this

Is why you'll see like a a payment Pro Depending on the the blockchain and all That you'll see basically a a Time Window like we do payments once every 24 Hours or whatever it is because there's Other security parameters that are put Into place that can cause these types of Things some things that happened to me While I was running pools uh a wallet Gets locked and the mining pool software Can't unlock it and process payments The we run an update to the mining pool Software because a lot of this is open Source and it changes the fee structure Right another really bad thing that Could happen is you run and update your Config file gets replaced and it pays Out to the wrong wallet entirely okay Now seeing as from what I understand From woolly pool This started to happen around a certain Time as confirmed by defy Django and Then stopped happening after a certain Time There is the possibility that woolly Pool ended up in a situation where they Pushed an update they shouldn't have That changed their configuration files And or their wallet got locked out and Was not processing payments these are Things that could have happened okay A 40 fee or discrepancy could that have Happened yes it could have as am I Positive that that's what happened no I

Have to do some more research but the Testing methodology here the single Address that appears to be probably a Payment address right these aren't Sufficient Grounds for me to These aren't sufficient grounds for me To condemn woolly pool right off the bat The question will be is do they make the Users whole right and this is where I Guess there's still some questions some Things that I'm worried about for Example uh on this in particular is that The is that woolly pool Has not been addressing this on their Twitter very much the only thing that I've seen is that due to a database Issue that happened on 20th through the 25th period they're making the Recalculations now So this could also have been a crashed Database and they recovered the database And it didn't pay out so a database a Database usually a mining pool software Is keeping track of what it's keeping Track of shares okay so when you are Mining you're getting shares Shares are A completely centralized idea they are Not decentralized at all whatsoever you Are completely dependent on basically a SQL database for tracking those shares And then submitting them to a script That runs through a payment processor Okay so as you're mining those Shares

Are basically going into a database You're dependent on woolly pool's Databases being up to date and accurate And what it appears to be here to me is That wooly pools databases were not up To date and we're not accurate right That's what it appears to me to be If they fix that good how do you make Users whole here that can be a little Bit more complicated if they've lost the Database data right completely it would Be nearly impossible for them to go Through and figure out what they owe to Each individual minor So this is going to put obviously a huge Uh a huge Black mark on woolly pool And If you aren't this is one of the reasons People ask me like why don't you run Pools Half the hell is paid with good Intentions I don't necessarily think That wooly pool is doing anything here Intentionally I think that they Basically had a poor process put in Place they didn't perform their due Diligence on upgrades and they did not Have proper updates running on their Databases this is why when you get into Pool infrastructure you need to have a Full it team you need to have cybersec Professionals you need to have Networking professionals you need to

Have database professionals and all of It should be treated from a mining pool Infrastructure set up as you would treat Basically the most sensitive of data Meaning like it should be treated like You're a banking data center that's how It should be treated because that is What you're messing with here and if you Do not have the capability of doing that And if you do not have like literally Like 15 minute incremental backups on Your databases for tracking shares then You need to either reconsider what You're doing or hire some outside Professional help That is how I would put this okay once Again do I think woolly pool is scamming You no do I think they made a mistake Here yes do I think they'll make you Whole that's where I don't know if it's Even physically possible for them to do So because if they've lost the database Data then you are screwed okay That's it That that's pretty much what it comes Down to I would not throw shade directly at Woolly pool and say that they're Stealing stuff especially because we've Already seen the balance on the wallet In question come down okay By over five hundred thousand dollars Buy over half a million dollars Okay so

Um you know if if this starts getting Funneled Right like if this starts getting Funneled to an exchange Then we can start bringing up questions As to what is going on There could technically still be a Reason for it going to an exchange I Suppose Um I know for example that well are coming Out of an exchange I guess I know that For me in particular when we had the Pearl pool hacked what I had to do was Buy a bunch of Pearl and then send it to The payment processing wallet and then That wallet finished its Payment Processing but we didn't have database Errors because we had database backups Right so we didn't have any errors Within our shares so the shares were Completely up to date the wallet was Just drained by a hacker okay Um so a little bit of a different Situation here whereas right now what it Appears is the payment processor can't Uh Pro doesn't have the data the data to Process the transactions So that is uh so far what I can tell you And then Rockefeller says we asked for Uh wooly pool to explain it and the Thing is is like I'm I can I can explain It because of what they explained here Okay

Meaning Um If you have any experience in 19 you've Worked with it guys All I am is The Interpreter of the a the IT guy I can tell you exactly what's Happening because I have a knowledge and Intimate knowledge of how this works Okay Um and then I do have that Knack luckily Like the reason why I think a lot of you All watch is I have that Knack of being Able to explain a complicated process in An easy to understand Manner and Articulate it right and so all I'm doing Is articulating what the problem could Be with woolly pool and this isn't a Condemnation nor is it a uh an uh an Absolution of woolly pool right Once again if If they do not have Proper and and to me when when you say You have a database issue then I'm Wondering is there data lost in that Database right or is that database there Can you restore it and restore the Payments but like let's say there is a Database issue and you were mining During a database crash and then the Database was restored then those shares Weren't being tracked for that time that You were that the database was crashed Right So in that case there wouldn't be a

Physical way for them to repay to my Knowledge Now if you're a minor on woolly pool and You pull it up and you have a certain Amount of shares right and you aren't Getting paid out what those shares Should calculate out to Um then at that point you then I would Assume that the shares the shares are Obviously what happens like when you go To a website right or a mining pool Website let's go to Willy pool right And you go to uh you look at Um let's see does it actually show Shares in here see this is a problem I Don't think they show shares Yeah they don't they just show effort Um so actually I don't like this if I Was let's see It just shows you last share it doesn't Show you total share count Um so I would go back to the dates in Question Probably Let's see these are all See okay so we have another problem here Guys Um this Miner looks pretty new Or his shares are lost right so this is Saying that March or yeah sorry Um Yeah March March 5th of uh 2023 is when This minor was mining so I'm actually Curious

Showing total shares would tell us a Little bit better but let's go through This Let's go through this and see if we can Find oops Hey no wrong way A miner that I was going to try to open in new tab so No not that Fine a miner that goes beyond that nope Not that I wanna I just want to see The Miner Right so I'm gonna go here what do I Click to go to there sorry oh miners I Gotta keep clicking this tab okay let's Go here Let's go to shares Yeah this is concerning okay Um what's concerning to me here is that All of their shares don't go back Further than today Um and this Miner has been mining for a Week So why that is concerning is like if This Miner's been mining for a week we Should See shares I mean now this they only Show 10 pages so maybe they have a limit On this right so when they're pulling From the API that's pulling from the Database and saying a share was Submitted on this time Right maybe because they don't want to Have a bunch of polls on their database

They're saying only calculate only show Shares last shares for the past 24 hours Or whatever it is Um so looking at the pool I can't really Determine if there was a lapse in Recording of the shares or a glitch in The recording of the shares but that Could have been possible as well So Um That is where we're at as far as that's Concerned Um something definitely happened more Than likely what it looks like to me Is the database went down and they Didn't have uh Incremental backups on the database Um How they handle this is obviously going To be a problem too But I'm not going to get into the drama Of it I'm very aware of like if pool Ops Feel like they're doing the right thing They're under a lot of stress and They're working a lot they're going to Be rude Um it doesn't condone that it's just Like Understand where that's coming from Right understand where that's coming From Um Luckily as cryptocurrency miners it's Very very very easy

To go ahead and Um Switch pools right Here's where Here's where I think things are weird Okay What they have said now Is that there's a recalculation going on Okay so let's talk about what that means And what more than likely is happening Here Okay This is where um somebody could actually Come into the system and really up this Up for woolly pool let me so You guys need to know this information But you also need to understand that if You do this uh it's highly unethical Okay Okay I'm gonna make this extremely clear you Need to understand this information but If you go do this it's highly unethical And um Highly Questionable right more than Likely because they are recalculating This is what's happening remember we Have a database that stores the shares That you are getting okay That you're earning on the pool So I think what they'll probably do Is they probably have a record of all The miners that were connected to the Pool

Prior To a database crash or an error with the Database okay Now if they want to pay those miners out They need to calculate the percentage of Work those miners were doing during that Time okay then they can create basically A fake database to feed the payment Processor most likely the reason why the Payment processing pool the payment Processing wallet will has probably Changed okay they've most likely stood Up another mining pool software with a Separate wallet that now the money is Going to on the old one they've probably Locked the wallet and they're trying to Determine the percentage of which for Each one of those for the for that Wallet needs to go to essentially all The miners so what does that mean well They're probably taking and saying okay These were the miners that were mining Let's see what their hash rate is now And depending on the percentage of hash Rate of the pool that they currently Have is what will pay out when we Process the payments on the old mining Software This means if you were mining on woolly Pool prior to the database crash okay And you now turn on and turn on more Hash rate than you had prior It's going to mess up the calculation For that payment processing once again I

Said it's unethical to do so but that's What that's where this gets into a very Tricky position this is also why they Probably won't tell you exactly what's Happening until after because if that Information was leaked then there are People that would game the system For example throw a bunch of extra hash Rate through nice hash or something Along those lines on a particular wallet Address that was mining on it beforehand So that they can basically Garner the Entire payout that didn't go through Because the database was crashed okay So Um Once again I do not think that wooly Pool is doing anything intentional but I Think this is also why they are keeping It hush hush Because the way that you recover this is Very tricky and there's not a way for Them to guarantee it Um So that's how you would game this that's Probably what they're trying to avoid It does sound like a database crash if We look at once again if we look at the History of the last shares it doesn't go Back further than today Um which means tells me that at least The API that is pulling data is not Pulling data from older than today which Means it is quite possible there's a

Brand new database right now Okay Um Which means they rebuilt from the ground Up And there's a brand new database Probably a brand new wallet for the for The payment processing as well Um Yeah There you go that's as much as I can Deep dive into that for you guys right Now hopefully it gives you a better Understanding of how this stuff Functions And um You know It is what it is I think wooly pool is Going to lose a lot of credibility uh Regardless I don't think there's any Um I don't think that there is any Reason to go Uh Be rude to the devs or anything like That at this point Um you know at this point Decentralization is going to play its Part Um capitalism will play its part here Right like People are going to move off the pool When they don't trust it we see this all

The time okay let that happen no Personal tax are needed thanks for Checking out this clip from the crypto Mining show you can check out the full Episode here or more crypto content down Here also I'd like you to check out my Locals page at son of a tech.locals.com Where you can become a member for free Or choose to be a five dollar a month Supporter that unlocks additional Content

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