From GPU To ASICS | Network Effect on Kaspa

Uh what's up Sons it's blind run with Son of a tech once again I'm happy to Have shy back on the Channel with Caspa And he's gonna go over everything Casper I have a ton of questions specifically I Think surrounding you know the the Chromatic block or block rewards block Reward reduction the how that's going to Interact with everything the blocks per Second and how that's going to help with The transition in proof of work from you Know gpus to Asics and and that sort of Thing so I'm very happy to have you on Here today shy thanks for joining me hey Matt it's great to be here Let me get your uh your Twitter handle Updated here real quick And then we'll go from there so we've Been talking not affiliated with Dynamics not not affiliated So we've been talking a little bit on Twitter you know it's really hard to Like uh communicate I think on Twitter And get everything out in the open and And actually articulate the questions Articulate the answers and I think there Are some some great uh uh answers that You have to some of this uh some of These questions are pending because Really the Catalyst for all of this at The end of the day that's been going on Is this kind of Sooner than expected possibility of Asics hitting the the

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Caspa Network right that's what we are Dealing with Um so give me your thoughts on that Because obviously we've seen Um Red panda mining for example here more Recently get an example or a test unit From this ice River Company what are Your thoughts on Ice River the validity Of their claims and do you see any red Flags right now that maybe you would Want to let people know about Sure okay before I start I just want to Give the the usual disclaimer that Casper is a is a community product Everything I say right now represents Only me and my opinions Eventually decisions are gonna be made By the community I hope that the Community appreciates my thoughts but I Don't represent Casper as a whole in any Way and nobody does and And with that being said we can start Now about ice level Um I'll say it like this I don't know Ice River I don't know whether they are Legit or not I don't want to accuse Anyone or anything Um but I'm not fairly convinced at this Point that there are Asics now I must Say that I don't object to the idea that There are six times not trying to Convince people that Asics do not exist It's just that I want people to be

Cautious that's all right Yes for now the evidence we have are Videos And the show with Asics running now the Thing is and again I'm not saying this Is uh what actually happens I'm saying It's a possibility that we can discount And these Asics they are managed they Are remotely managed by a software Um And you can't really know if the hashes How do they measure rashes you you Monitor and address and you see how much Casper goes into it And It could be it's a possibility like if I Was a scammer what I would do is have my Box Make a lot of noises and and the lights While I use external sources like my own Rig so like rented hash power to mine to That address and create this illusion of The of an Asic So again Um I have no idea who these guys are They could be completely legit but Technically it's a possibility that they Are putting a lot of resources into Creating this facade of the of affix so That they could disappear after people Pay for periods and again not accusing Anyone I just want people to be careful Yeah I mean a couple of things there is There's no way to claw back your

Purchase of these units right now right So all the purchases are direct Bank Transfers or direct crypto transfers Which means that you as a consumer have No way to claw that back in the event That it's not an actual product right so Just from consumer safety perspective if You ever see anything like that across The board it should raise a red flag of Like okay at the end of the day Yeah yes it's a new company it's Basically a merge out of you know like Five minutes ago if they don't have a Reputation you can count on so just uh Be careful that's all I'm saying yeah so Let's talk about Asics and Casper you Know we've already seen fpgas come out On Caspa you know really take over from An efficiency standpoint with K heavy Hash Um it's you know from my perspective as A minor I'm not personally going to mine Casper with you know uh inefficient Hardware when I know that there's more Efficient Hardware to mine it with right So I'm going to put the equipment that I Own that's efficient on Casper on Casper That's just the business decision that I Make in my own personal farm right Um but that being said Caspa has Maintained what I would consider a Pretty reasonable Profitability for gpus and less Efficient Hardware even though that

There's more efficient Hardware on the Network right now what do you think the Reasons for that are uh behind that First of all it's a basic math say Say I don't know that when we wallet 800 Tera it was pure gpus and now that I'll Say a 100 or 286 which bumped us up from 800 to a peterbike now Um 100 to 200 units sounds like a lot But essentially the the return of the Investment That you get is a decreased but it Hasn't decreased by 95 percent it Increased by uh 20 percent So I I get that it's not usable uh it's Not negligible at all but the thing is That you would have to have thousands of Units on the network before Um before GPU become completely Non-competitive at this uh at this scale Of the mining that we are at right now Right so I think yeah the ethics I think It's from from your point of view What's the difference between 200 R6 Which includes the global hash rate by 200 Tera and 200 000 gpus which increase The global hash rates by 200 Tera right The only difference is that you're Afraid that in the future there would be More R6 which will make it the gpus less And less competitive I think the the Argument is is a little well so from an Individual miners perspective it's less Profit right less revenue

From a network perspective I think the Worry is less decentralization right Um so it depends on where you want to Attack that angle from I think it's Pretty easy to say that if you're a GPU Miner and you're less profitable on one Coin then another then go mine the other Coin I just don't I don't see any reason To argue over that at any point now for The the health of the network for Casper The question does become is there you Know is there a risk that if A6 become Two power powerful too early on that There's a threat to decentralization Right okay so you know either there are Two points of use to this discussion the The minor point of view and the network Point of view and I I kind of consider You like the my link to the miners Community I don't know the miners Community from inside I get that you are A minor and your cloud is the cloud of Minors and mostly minor miners will Probably watch this minor so uh Casper Fans and so I'm trying to to mostly talk To this point of view of the manual Um um I get why some people aren't too Happy about the emergence of Asics yeah And I think that GPU mining the the security That it gives to the network And it's not too stable If you're talking about Network Health And because minors can pop from coins to

Coins and I I would even say something Stronger they should and we can't rely On minors to keep mining our Network Even when it becomes unprofitable for Our security we I'm not judgmental about Minus being opportunistics these you About people who want to make money and Pay your bills in your it's eventually We are all amicable and we all like each Other but it's business I can't expect You to lose money to secure my network You have to have like a clear incentive To do so and if the next cool coin comes Along which is very profitable to mind The miners are going to flock to it and Reduce Casper security and that's fine I Can't blame the miners for doing so but Our security can rely on minors for that Reason The the end game has to be ethics Because Asics are more stable and this Is a consideration which is somewhat a Bit unique to Casper because we have Very very fast confirmations so very Fast confirmations means that we are More Um sensitive to to unstable hash rate Okay and that means So for to put that into perspective Basically if you have if you have an Asic the reason it's more stable is Traditionally that Asic is going to be Purpose built to mine one single Algorithm which means the likelihood of

It moving off and back on the network is Lower than a GPU that has access to Multiple networks to mine right so That's the reason for the stability and Then when we when we kind of follow up That idea for that being better for Casper specifically is because Casper Has a unique problem that it's trying to Solve which is speed of block speed of Blocks and because you know blocks and Confirmation times fast confirmation Okay fast confirmation times okay thanks For that clarification so because of the Fast confirmation times then uh it's More stable with an Asic on there Because you aren't having as much move Off and you need that stability because You're trying to get that higher Throughput for confirmation time things Mm-hmm okay no I mean that makes sense I Completely understand the reasoning for It or or behind it the the question then That I have that follows up to that I Mean it seems like you don't want to Talk about the decentralization factor Am I going on we will get heavily into The centralization it's a very important Aspect okay but they're all in the time Okay Um well what I mean do we want to follow Up with that then like as far as is There a is there a sweet spot for this Transition for Caspa based on the Chromatic emissions that you would think

There would be for uh a transition Between one piece of mining hardware and The next And Mathematically a sweet spot exists but I Can tell you exactly what it is okay and The thought I had in mind and when we Still consider when we discuss the Emission schedule was that uh Bitcoin Was a fully ethic dominated by the 2015 By the start of 2015 And at that time about 60 percent of the Um emission was already in circulation Uh we thought that we want to be in a Sense uh later than Bitcoin and we I Hope that again um people have varying Opinions I wanted the Asics to become Dominant when we are at about 80 or 90 Percent of the emission in circulation And if If it's true that Asics are already Underway and say that they become Dominated by the end of year then we Almost made it it's more like 70 to 80 Percent depends on how much was mined by Asics doing the eel okay and and it Seems very reasonable to me because the R6 miners have to have a cup too because Operating an Asics still costs money Right you have uh you do have some Electricity Um Costs you still need the space for that You still need to to fix them replace

Them etc etc cooling all of that yeah Yes and the the incentive the most well Asic minors are typically have much less Selling pressure than GPU minus And they'll they they tend to hold more And what makes the the major incentives For plastic miners to keep the rustics Running is that they have their cut and They wanted to regain its value We support the network not because Like the economic incentive is not what They will mind because the the rewards Are diminishing very quickly uh it's That if they don't mind then the the Coin that they do on gets devalued and The that's the loss that they have if They don't turn on the rigs right Interesting Try I think I mean I think that covers Everything as far as like the questions I think it's articulate I think you Articulate it well enough I don't think I disagree with you on any point Um I I think I still You know I I think that there is we both even Agree on the fact that like there Probably is a a sweet spot you know you Don't want to move into A6 too quickly Because I think that can be detrimental Uh to the network Um I I'm still debating whether I like Fpgas at all or not I I tend to not like

The uh Uh the industry that much just because Of the way it blocks people from access Uh in fact I think fpga's block access Even more than Asics which is arguably Worse for networks at the end of the day The only difference being that fpgas Kind of have this low production amount Or quantity right meaning that Even though it is you know behind this Kind of Walled Garden it it's not enough To damage a network right Um per se but I do think that there's Been some selling pressure from fpga Manufacturers on Caspa here recently Um and it did seem like there was also a Huge sell-off of these fpga units over The past two weeks I'm not clear on the Reason for it exactly Um but what I saw or observed was Basically calls from these you know fpga Major Distributors to sell off a bunch Of fpga units on you know to Consumers Real quick and then right after that saw A lot of these wallets that were being Mined to with fpga units begin to dump Onto the onto the markets right Um So I don't know the fpgas are healthy in General but I think like in con or to Add to that I think that they don't have Enough Of them to actually hurt Caspa right Like I think Casper's recovered from

That from a price perspective Um I I don't know if you have any thoughts On that I just it's something I've been Kind of like struggling with kind of Thinking about how I actually feel about That as a market right Well what you said about the fpga Industry I really don't have an opinion About Um I'm not familiar with this industry Again I'm not a miner I've never held a Jeep and fpga I I didn't even hear about Fpgas before they may not launched yeah And I learned since minute lunch I've Learned about Fields I didn't even know Existed within trip to space I used to Be a mathematician and Um regarding the um the price action now I don't like to talk about price and I Don't like to talk about shouts and but I'm not sure that there is this huge Dump anything everyone talks about at All I think it's just an actual Collection we a month ago We were at our all-time high which was Two-thirds of the price today right that Doesn't sound to me like a huge drop Sounds to me like a correction we are Now 150 percent Of the all-time high over a month ago it Sounds reasonable to me there are flows There are ABS I don't know I don't this

Chart looks healthy to my amateur wives I I see people selling fine people are Gonna take profit that's fine that's Healthy in the long run we see a Decrease in the number of uh wallets With more than a hundred million Casper I think the number they dropped from Eight to five or something the coin gets Distributed it's very healthy for the Coins to get distributed but it comes With selling pressure which does uh have A downward Pi section it's just Mutual Flow of things I don't see anything Really abnormal here No I think I agree I think the the only Part was that initial weekend where Where you did see you know 100 million Immediate dump and a dump of the of the Binding units and that's where I get a Little suspicious right I'm like well What's really going on Twitter and on the telegram groups which Uh actually go and monitor wallets and I Never double checked them but what I've Heard is essentially that the single big Wallet for like I think it was a 50 Million wallet or something yeah and it Dumped and then we've seen a lot of Small wallets dumping like they describe It as a as the the official panicking or Something yeah this entire marine Biology Norman culture of how much coin You have and Um

I don't know it sounds reasonable to me I never understand price Dynamics I Don't think anyone actually does Yeah Little pictures on it it was much more Concerned when we dropped by a 75 after Being listed to Maxi and but I was less Concerned because it was a more Detrimental situation and just because It was my first huge drop again I I have Never been So invested in crypto before Um but okay it just seems like the Natural flow of things it makes sense I Don't see anything here there Let's talk about some exciting stuff Um Alpha release was successful there Appears to be successful so far for rust Um I have my my Alpha nodes running I Think I have two two or three of them I Built a third yeah and then been working On the guides for them for people and so On Um how do you feel about it or are you What what are some takeaways initially Here that you've seen Um congratulations The the last node is Michael's it's not Just Michael but it was Spirited by Michael I am a user just like you I Didn't like the single line of code in There I keep clarifying that I wasn't a Part of this effort yeah and just maybe A part of generating the high explaining

Why this I thought it's so awesome but I Wasn't directly involved in this release In any way Um I I think I wanted to do what's in Casper's best interest so it's in its Best interest that I wouldn't write any Code because I'm a rather mediocre okay And But I ran the node on my laptop just to uh To see how it works and it synced in Like two minutes and I was like wow yeah Wow used to take an hour and a half and People would say what but Bitcoin takes Two days and now it's like two minutes And it's insane and it's so light and it Works so nicely it really you really Feel that your computer can do a hundred Times more work a hundred times more Work it's like 30 times more blocks yeah And it's like I always believed that it Is possible because Michael has this annoying tendency to be Right about everything but uh But after I ran it and so how light it Is I'm like okay It's not gonna be a problem it's gonna Work just fine yeah Perfect Um yeah I'm super excited to see where It goes hopefully get to witness the Beta and then obviously once the hard Fork is in place and watch this thing go

Live I'm curious here's another question That I had because there's a I have some Confusion surrounding this and maybe if You don't have the answer that's okay But so we we potentially moving to rust You know we're going to increase the Amount of blocks per second right that's My understanding how does that affect Mining how does that affect mining Rewards and finding blocks And you're gonna get uh say we increase The the block rate by say I don't know 30 then you're gonna get a Um 30 times less reward per block but You're gonna get 30 times more blocks Okay your expected income is gonna be The same however And there is a benefit to to having Higher block rates that it decreases the Variance So the you know how it is like if you Mine Bitcoin and you mine I don't know You you have enough equipment to find a Block every five days then you're gonna It's very common that you're not gonna Get a Blog for 10 days and then you're Gonna get two blocks at the same day There is a lot of variance because the The block delay of 10 minutes is not That smaller than the the return of Investment in days like it's a it's like Three four orders of magnitude Um and if you think about a block per I Don't know 200 300 milliseconds and you

Compare 300 milliseconds to a day this Um this difference in order to monitor This so huge that if you expect a block A day you're probably gonna see a block A day there will be very small Deviations so uh good news for miners Especially small minerals is that Um they will see much less fluctuations In the income That's good and and that also means that There's potential for more minors to be Able to mine to their own node which Means that you would potentially Increase of course the the amount of Nodes on the network which is good for Decentralization of the network I mean It all seems pretty positive to me right You can solo mine with less hash power And now your rewards don't go up but Your the variance goes down which means That you are still getting more reliable Income which removes the basically Lowers the the need per hash rate to Mine to a pool right yeah this is this Is the second older effect before that The time you're going to wait for a Block Um and the expected time like on average The time you're gonna wait for a block Is Um It's your fraction of the network Over the number of daily blocks like if You have all of the net or sorry it's a

It's opposite but if you have all of the Fraction of the network you're gonna see All of the blocks right And if Bitcoin produces I think 1400 blocks a day something like that Um You no it's a 140 blocks a day right Yes 10 minutes right yes something you Get six blocks an hour Yeah Um So you're gonna need about one one of The the number of blocks created a day Fraction of the entire hash rate to to Have an expected gain of a daily block So if in Casper we have 600 Time Of blocks more per day then you're gonna Need Um a fraction smaller by a factor of 600 And once we move to therapy BPS that This reduces from 1 over 600 to 1 over 18 000 right So Um I think it should be much less And we make okay right now we make 600 Times small blocks and then we're gonna Make 18 000 no so yes Um you're gonna okay I understand what I Did wrong you're gonna need a fraction Which is smaller by a factor of 18 000 Then you would need for Bitcoin so if

For Bitcoin you need one over 140 And then now we'll need one over 140 Times eighteen thousand it's like two And a half million right So much much smaller fraction and this Also completely eliminates this entire Variance name because in Bitcoin if you Expect a block per day then you're gonna Have like four days without a Blog and Then a day with four blocks Etc and so If you want to margin of error what People usually do is they take two Standard deviations and then they know That 95 percent of the day still they're Gonna see a block and this they need Like something like a little bit more Than a percent of this so like Bitcoin Can Only Hold about a hundred miners With with the steady daily income And Caspa can have about Two and a half million on 30 BPS over [Music] Um Just I don't know how much it comes up To like 1800 18 000 or something like this For uh on one block a day yeah we might Have to actually draw this out for People at some point be like here it is Yeah I think I was reading it so I Wanted to talk about that now one thing That I haven't seen you talk about which Would be a little bit interesting I'll Bring this up maybe you can answer it

Does the increase of blocks per second Uh post move you know to rust will that Affect the the uh amount of fees per Transaction for the users on the network Yeah obviously yes because If you have 30 more blocks 30 times Small blocks then your throughput goes Up and if your throughput goes up Then essentially what determines the Price of a transaction roughly It's gonna be close to Um how much it costs to produce a block Um over the number of transactions you Could fit in a block if it costs a minor Um like ten dollars to produce a block And a block can contain 100 transactions Then you're gonna see like 10 cents per Transaction fee of course it's very Approximate in It doesn't take into account like this Uh that people pay more fees for higher Quality of service so that miners can Deny fees that are too low and there is The Dynamics of a female get a very Complicated Um but essentially Uh the the block space of a single Transaction would cost less to produce So it would have a smaller fee yeah That's what I was kind of thinking so That makes sense for sure thanks guy for Coming on clearing up a lot of this for Us and discussing it and being willing To come on I appreciate it a lot uh you

Know I think like a lot of the Perception on things like Twitter can be Like that we're disagreeing on something So I like to get clarification on Everything Um and I appreciate that you're willing To do that Um I I learned a lot today so thanks for Teaching me and helping me out there Where can people find you And mostly on Twitter on Telegram And I also hang around the Discord Essentially if you tag me on this code Then eventually I will respond Um my nickname there is two Um because I had to switch accounts for Some reason Um and I think I'm mostly active on on Twitter where's the dashing [Music] It's just uh I I don't even know how to say it in English it's like uh You know like uh the the grass you have On your phone clone okay that's that that's the meaning of the world and It's just this okay you silly nickname I Have had since I was 13 it's like it's Very easy story I just put it as my Nickname in the icq yeah so that it Would be easy to find me and then people Started calling me that in real life and It's just stuck with me for almost 25 Years I guess

Awesome very cool we all have those Those internet usernames that we've had Way too long and probably shouldn't have Created when we were here but Yes and the animal thing just another Concern I want to alleviate yeah about Something which I saw in your twist I Just want to make this perfectly clear That my jawline is incredible I'm sure it is well you'll get a pass I Think they were the other because I did The one with uh no uh don't you know Don't date a woman that that has uh that Has a Snapchat so I had to like even out And do like a manual as well so I got I Think I gotta think of some more ones But that was the only one I could think Of the meme that somebody made after That or found was pretty funny too it Had the guy the the guy that's usually Like her and then it was like oh you Shaved and it I don't know if you saw it In the replies it was funny yes yeah I Think I know that I like this one right He shaved his head and then he has like A baby face Yeah in the chair like that yeah I'm Sure you have a strong chin but you'll Have to show us some time I don't know Maybe maybe Which is one dollar I'll save my bills There you go when Casper I'm gonna hold You to that now yeah Done all right when Casper reaches one

Dollar Mr shy here is gonna shave his beard Thank you for coming on again everybody Else I'll see you next Tuesday Today's sponsor is myself I recently Launched a crypto mining e-course at son Of a and it includes nine steps To cover when you decide to start your Crypto mining Journey this is Specifically pertaining to 2023 crypto Mining profits and taking advantage of The DOW market to achieve skyrocketing Growth as we move into the next having a Bitcoin you learn buying mining Equipment in a bear Market using outside Investment to speculative mine begin Mining once profit is established sell Mine crypto to pay for electricity hold And prep for the Bull Run sell at the Top of the bull market sell mining Equipment at the top of the bull market And begin investing in land and power so That you can bring in outside investors To utilize excess resources thanks Everybody for your support and I hope You enjoy the course let me know what You think of it in the comment section Below

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