Dynex: The Future of Computing? Chief Architect Shares Insights

It almost started hey Sons it's blind Run with son of attack once again and Joining me today is Timmy Thoma the Chief Architect of Dynex and we are Going to be discussing all things Dynex And of course the most recent news is The Dynex uh hack on the the Discord so We'll be covering that and getting a few Ideas on what happened there as some of The social engineering behind it and of Course the main focus still is going to Be the technology behind Dynex where It's headed in the future and all all Things die next because I think if I'm Not mistaken this will be the first time That anybody's interviewed you is that True yeah absolutely okay hi there by The way thank you so much for taking Your time on a Sunday thanks for coming On I think you've been very elusive I Think a lot of people are going to be Interested into hearing your uh hearing Your side of the story on everything Yeah I mean definitely and interesting Project right we've been hearing the Term you know proof of useful work being Thrown around for quite some time now a Couple years right maybe even longer Than that uh starting out really getting Popularized with that term from the Project flux and Um I think has been thrown around in a Couple other smaller projects that Really not never got you know off the

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Ground and give me the rundown of what Your definition of proof of useful work Is because I think that's That's a term that could be utilized in Multiple different facets right Cultivate totally agree and basically Basically let me give you a little Rationale behind what we are doing and Why we are doing what we are doing right And that does that that will also Bridge Nicely uh what's the what's our point of View between proof of work and proof of Useful work so basically Basically We started 2020 right with uh Researching into alternative Computing Paradigms and why because we believe That we are running into some sort of a Bottleneck at one point because fun more You know it's not possible to make Transistors smaller smaller smaller Smaller right at one point we need other Mechanisms other Technologies to speed Up computations right and especially if You combine that with the ever-growing Demand for artificial intelligence Computations we're going to run into an Issue at one point so there is a lot of Of research going towards okay how can This be done differently right and also In a way that uh which is basically Practicable right because Quantum Computing is great but it's not really Practical to have a quantum computer at

Home from a pricing perspective from an Operating perspective and so on and so Forth right and so we went into this Whole neuromorphic Computing thing right And it was no idea of of going into Blockchain or making a crypto project or Anything actually the whole research was Around how can we do computations faster Okay and we started off uh building our Own our own clusters of our own Technology which we created the Dynex Trips I don't want to get too much into The details but at one point we realized That actually where is this computing Power in the world and it's actually Mining in proof of work mining right That's where okay tons of energy is Being spent I mean we're talking about About huge uh carbon emissions about Huge energy of entire countries is being Used for hashing for proof of work right And my definition or our definition of Proof of work is basically confirming Blocks by finding hashes which is Basically nothing really from a Mathematical perspective nothing really Sophisticated right it is just it's Basically almost like brute forcing with A little bit Randomness right A Different kind of whatever hashing Algorithm you use but but basically Every block Tons of energy is being spent in finding The head or the nouns right in order to

To confirm that block and then this Whole energy which was spent is being Thrown away Right and we did we define proof of Useful work As not spending all the entire energy Into simply hashing and then throwing it Away but using the majority of the Energy being spent in Computing Something useful That's basically our definition of proof Of useful work now I would push back a Little bit I don't think that it's I I Don't like to say the proof of work is Throwing it away I think uh I think the Value of security security is important For proof of work in general I'm a Little bit more of an old school Um I guess proof of work Bitcoin guy From that perspective I think uh so I I Pushed back a little bit on that term But I think being able to utilize that Energy to do even more and become more Efficient is definitely definitely the Path that proof of work needs to move Towards yes yes and and the thing is I Agree with you obviously securing a Network is is absolutely valuable but to What extent I mean you could also you Could also secure the entire Bitcoin Network with 10 of the energy yeah so Where that comes into play if you want To be completely honest is that you have To make it financially prohibitive for

Entire for entire countries to attack The network because at the end of the Day what you're going to see is kind Countries that have the funds and the Means to attack networks do it if they Can if that network is something they Deem a threat to their economy uh and so On right so you see things like Hillary Clinton in the U.S coming out and saying You know minors are a threat to the the Reserve currency or Reserve status Reserve currency status of the US dollar And it's like Well if if she actually tried if there Was some sort of like government push to Try to attack the Bitcoin Network then Then having the full hundred percent of The security in place is going to make That cost prohibitive even though Bitcoin could function with like you Know 90 percent less of the security Yeah yeah no I mean I mean you have you Have a valid point nevertheless we Believe that in our case for example Five percent is being used for hashing 95 of the power is being used for Computations which are much more uh Efficient than than in with any other Computing model that actually also helps A lot right yeah because and there's a Lot of stuff that go that's going on in Dynex that I definitely have like very Basic questions for Um so because

Neuromorphic like obviously I think That's a term that a lot of people when They first see it Um sounds like more of like a publicity Uh thing advertisement yeah absolutely And I think that's because people don't Understand what it is right yes so uh Maybe a a basic understanding or Explanation of of Norm neuromorphic Computing would be awesome uh for sure Yeah so basically you can achieve Neuromorphic Computing with different Ways we chose neuromorphic Computing Based on memory stores right right but Technically the the difference between Regular Computing and neuromorphic Computing you can Envision it uh regular Computing is basically zero one right You have two states right and Neuromorphic Computing is not having Zero and one is having basically a scale Of energy between minus one and plus one Volts for example right so it's Basically it's basically utilizing the Whole range of voltages which allows the Computations to be inherent parallel Because basically a neuromorphic Computation does not need to access Memory all the time because given the Fact that it can it can basically store The remember sort of right what went What what was the energy flow before in There doesn't does remove the Requirement to access memory all the

Time so that means in a number of setup You have let's say a hundred thousand New memory stores and all of them can Calculate in parallel which leads to Very similar characteristics like like The four state Quantum model for example Okay so that's better to summarize right It is and it is not something be Invented by the way it's something which Which which researchers around the world Have have tried and have been doing Before and actually the first memories That was invented in the 70s even right They call it the the missing the force Missing circuit element it's just now That it became more popular because now It's possible to interestingly simulate That quite efficiently And so that's what's basically taking Place on the network for the Pro or the Useful work side of things is simulating This this neuromorphic Computing correct That's exactly what's happening okay Because I think another thing that a lot Of people get confused about as well as As do I there was this talk of a Neuromorphic chip that was being Developed by Dynex what's the status of That and what is the purpose of that Does that replace the need for gpus in The future as well So as as I explained before right memory Stores is an especially ideal memory Stores it's a circuit element which

Cannot be built in the moment it's not Possible to really physically build it But you can make a circuit design a chip Design you can say okay you put in five Five memory stores here and you put a Transistor here and there and to connect It all together you make a circuit Design Now if you were to build it and if it Would be possible to build it you can Basically compute at speeds which is Unheard of right but it's not possible Okay but what turned out that Researchers found out even if you Simulate those circuit designs which we Call the Dynex chips okay even then Obviously you're not as fast as if it Would be a real Hardware piece but if You have enough gpus right contributing To it you get all the desired features Of of this of of the same of the same Output as if it would be a real circuit Right so basically you're simulating That like we said before just restating But you're simulating this neuromorphic Chip uh with as provided you have enough GPU power to contribute to it correct Correct and that's that was the reason Why we said we need to go crypto because That's where their gpus are right Because if the real I mean you know that You know anyway how that works there's a Lot of unused GPU power available and we Said right now right after the after the

Merge for ethereum okay why not Reinthrop us that right and nobody has Has done it before I mean all the Research we have seen and including our Team we are we all have limited GPU Resources eventually right I mean if you Look at the Dynex Network today we have Like something like 20 30 000 workers up And running right so they imagine how Many gpus are are operating right there That alone is quite interesting but on The other side Building a system like this on a crypto Network comes with a lot of challenges Because it's it's uh what we call it's a Malleable environment right I mean Miners come and go they switch on switch Off you have today you have that hash Power tomorrow you have this hash power So it was very important to basically Create some some sort of a job Management system right which is which Is basically dealing with miners coming And going resources coming and going and Yet still providing the network Efficiency and this is this is what you All have heard malop right we all love Yeah I was definitely going to ask about The malabend points and what their role Was for sure yeah but it's it's a Crucial and essential part of the of the Ecosystem right and we are improving it And we are making it better and more Scalable and more scalable over time and

I think we are at a pretty good state Right now but uh technically malop is is Responsible of sending your gpus or Decide defining what your GPU has to do Exactly right And then and that's kind of how I was Explaining it to people as well is that That was my understanding is that's Basically the malibend point is your job District distribution right if somebody Has a job or a job gets submitted from The client side to the end point and Then that goes out to the GPU side or Whatever right right now that's it Science sorry to complete your your Thoughts the client would say you know What I want to compute something I want To simulate let's say 500 000 10x chips For a period of like say 10 blocks or Until it's solved right and then the Next the next miners which are basically Uh being started and connected to the Malloc system are being assigned these 500 000 chips for example right So that and then I think there's there's So many directions I could go here with Questions because I have a ton Surrounding this but first one I think Especially from a GPU mining perspective A fundamental crypto perspective would Be you know like does this hurt Decentralization of the network and The the question really comes down to is There going to be a future in which

Malabend points are kind of open sourced And anybody's able to stand those up in Front of their pools of course or I mean You know alongside their pools uh we've Seen you know issues with like Zerg Pools never stood one up some examples Like that Um how is that accessibility because There also is like well we'll go we'll Start with that malibin point Decentralization how does that how does That play out to make obviously you're Talking about that's going to help with That would help with scalability you Know along with everything else yeah Yeah Yeah so basically Um I mean most likely you have followed The project since a while I also know You know that we are building Iteratively right so building basically We are launching things step by step if We're improving so when we launch for Example Dynex in uh in in September last Year the there was basically Everything was was was proof of work and Then that running Dynex chips was Basically an option right that helped us To learn you know how to deal with all These different environments right with All these different speeds and so on and So forth then we said okay we're gonna Launch Dynex solve it was on December 1st which was basically making we're

Just making proof of useful work or Let's let's call it a GPU work right uh Or the the neuromorphic computations the Centerpiece of calculations And we immediately ran into into issues That people tried to exploit it we had To remove the source code now we mostly We after a lot of security enhancements We were able to release most of the Source code again for the miners and now We have commercial miners which helped a Lot and then we basically started off uh Basically Distributing my lobe endpoints Everywhere right so because we had Obviously it is it is per definition Right now still a centralized system the Mallow system but it doesn't need to be Right but it in terms of roadmap I mean We are now seven months old and we are Doing something that nobody else has Done before so we have to learn step by Step right right now we have now we have A stable environment in terms of mallow But we also know that the centralization Is obviously not the future right Decentralization is obviously something Which will be part so malov is going to Be decentralized eventually for sure There's no reason to have it a Centralized malloc system because if you Have a lot of smaller jobs right and yet It's not necessary that everyone has the Information in real time because even if Even if let's say a five second delay

When a job is solved doesn't really hurt The network right so so our plan is from A development perspective now we are Centralized And then we are going to have the the Dynamics Marketplace which is basically Sort of the self-service platform where People can post their own jobs and in Conjunction with the Dynex soft Marketplace we will also have malop Entirely decentralized so basically Everything from a database perspective We have learned enough now we actually Expected out last weekend already we Learned enough now how to actually Utilize it how to structure it from a Technical perspective how the dynamic Parameter tuning works best and so on And so forth now it's going to be Entirely decentralized being part of the Node awesome And as soon as it's part of the note I Can switch off the the centralized Mallop yeah and it's going to be all Open source of it and then uh presumably That means that miners may have Eventually in the future here the option To mine directly to their own nodes at Some point It's all gonna come back and then malope Is also then the pools you know I mean It's then basically they run their own Notes right and if they have good Infrastructure it's no issue and they

Want the more notes we have right the More scalable and and the more stable Everything is and and the malop issue Like getting the global outs outage of Manner this is is a thing of the past Right awesome and that's that's a that's The plan right and this is what we're Doing and we had to go into this step by Step we cannot I I personally find it Impossible to launch everything uh in One shot I mean imagine we would just Probably we would have probably already Killed the whole Dynex project by it Right it's better to do it step by step Take the learnings and then now we know The code base now we know where we have To put it now we know how to deal with It etc etc so it's really interesting to Hear that I mean at the end of the day Dynex wasn't Initially developed to be a a crypto Project that was initially developed to Be this kind of uh scientific test for Norm or neuromorphic Computing and then It was like well where where can we Obtain the computing power to actually Do this and it was like well there's a Bunch of gpus left over from things like The merge from ethereum and so on and a Bunch of crypto miners that we can Leverage to do that so let's move that Direction right correct correct that's Fascinating because I think a lot of People get a misconception of what it is

Right they look at it and I can tell you That like at first when you pull up the Website it's a little bit like okay what Is this right I don't really understand It so Um yeah I think uh definitely the next Question I have because it's like I Don't get this is is what is like are There any projects that are currently Utilizing this useful work and Um what are their success levels for This how important has it been up to This point I know I've seen some work What kind of work or what type of work Is being you is being used right now With Dynex So basically every single top 2000 Company is it a scale where it's facing Attractable problems That's for that's that's that comes Without saying right can you say that Again what type of problems Intractable they're basically problems They cannot solve right now right okay Now now currently our plan is to support A number of different job types which is Basically in relation to artificial Intelligence it's like pre-training of Machine learning models uh Federated Machine learning all these kind of Things right So basically everyone doing machine Learning will will be a potential Customer for Dynex second optimization

Problems and I know that's not really Common for people Um to understand what is an optimization Problem And optimization problems are everywhere And we are very glad because right now We are boarding customers on a on a on a More like on a business development And a step-by-step basis right we are Getting in touch with them and we are Doing it because we don't have a Marketplace and some of them allow us to Speak about it some of them say we don't Want to be mentioned which is also fine But uh most more recent use cases are For example and you'll probably have Seen it it was Kali Global right yeah And it sounded as a little bit abstract By explaining what it is they had to Build a pedestrian walkway right and There and the customer wanted to have Some really really interesting shape of A roof right for example right it was Like more like a like very organic shape Of a roof now in order to construct it As an architect Um you need to basically from a static Perspective you need to position the Columns in a way that it's still Boston Able to be a walkway but it doesn't need To be statically uh stable right you Don't want this whole thing to break Down okay now that's a typical job of a Statical engineer and obviously they

Have tools and they have actually very Sophisticated tools they have to do even Evolutionary positioning of these Columns right and it takes them let's Say a month to sit down and to basically Find the optimum positioning of this Column so this whole thing is stable Right and I got now not a while ago uh He became he when we started talking and He said you know cannot Dynex compute That faster and say well let's give it a Try right he said okay what format do You do you support obviously we support Industry standard formats so they Basically turned send us the problem we Put it into the network they had the Whole the whole Board of of directors Sitting and in the meeting room and Wanted to watch how it's done and and Before it even turned on and then the Projector it wasn't really solved Because it took one minute because he Needed an accuracy of 99.99 yeah and Then and then and then he said okay so What now I said okay well I I really Don't know what I even calculated here Or what Dynex calculated here right Please tell me is it useful for you And then I don't hear anything for you For for an hour and one hour later he Wrote back and said I mean this is just Unbelievable his his tactical engineer Was sitting there he said Dynex came up With the positioning of those columns no

Human would have ever thought of and It's it is it is perfection he said and That whole thing in one minute versus Using all evolutionary algorithms and I Don't know what the the statical Engineer would have been using for a Month and he would not even come up with A solution like that right so so just to Give an example that's an optimization Problem right you find optimization Problems also in drug Discovery right Finding medicine faster right and uh you Find it in everywhere basically right so So the market we're operating here Artificial intelligence combined with With optimization problems because these Go kind of hand in hand because an Artificial intelligence model in reality There's also nothing else then if Finding a set of optimum weights to a Model in order to have a all of which Can compute something right be it speaks Speech recognition or whatever it is Right makes Dynex is very very Interesting use case Awesome so I the the one thing that I'm Gonna I the use case is amazing Um I've been following as long as I can As well as I can and thanks for Explaining all that for sure the next Thing is obviously with cryptocurrency Comes this this additional Factor that is a a token that has a Price tied to it

Yeah and how does that play a role in Dynex and Dynex you know overall kind of Goal at the end of the day Dynex has the DNX token right and I think currently The price is around 18 cents or whatever What does that mean to you how does that Help the project move forward how will That be utilized So this is this is an embanked question So what differentiates most likely Dynex From other other coins which which minus Could minus that there is not only a Block reward and the transaction fees Being paid to miners but there's also a Block fee right so basically if somebody Books computation time on a network he Will say okay I'm on a as I said before I wanna have 500 000 Dynex trips for the Next 10 blocks or 100 blocks or whatever Block time on average is two minutes Right or until it's solved and I'm gonna Pay the amount of XYZ so obviously this Needs to be tied to Fiat because it Cannot beat at a computation time costs Him 100 000 Euros a second or something Like this right but it ensures because At one point all coins have will have Been mined and the block reward will be Very small before right right but we Need to be attractive for miners because Otherwise we do not have a network to Compute with right so basically rather Than than going for the models where Somebody can rent out his his GPU power

For amount of X we said okay we're gonna Basically combine it and integrate it With a block fee and that makes it Forever sustainable in a sustainable way Interesting and also also profitable for A minor that's the goal but it is also In a price range that a minor that the Customer I mean what's the price tag for The example I gave you before having a Guide an instructional designer sitting For a month and not coming up if you Write solution versus finding a solution In one minute how much should I charge For this right this is like it's it's it Is it is we are selling a product here Practically with which provides Solutions to problems which are very Hard to solve actually with other Technology right so so it is more or Less infinite right so basically we Found it more fair to tie it really to The computation power being provided to The number of chips and blocks and in in In Reverse having a long-term Sustainable model for for for the miners Awesome okay yeah I mean that makes Sense do you think that there's going to Be any regulatory issues surrounding That So to be honest I mean if you yeah true Utility coin I mean we have legal Opinions on the table right we are not a We are not a security or whatever right Yeah we are a real utility coin use case

Right so I think from that perspective We are in the let's put it like this the Most safest corner of all the crypto of Other cryptocurrencies you never know What's what's gonna happen right yeah uh We we Get we got uh contacted by some Government bodies multiple times already Being interested in utilizing our Technology For for different things Um that's why we also will cut we'll We'll talk about an Ethics Committee in The future because we want to ensure That only good things are being Calculated on our Network because it Could be abused as well right any other Technology And uh and uh I don't think that from a Regulatory perspective I mean we have Now started incorporation process in Liechtenstein which is part of the European Union so it's basically part of This new crypto law which has been Issued in European Union so we're all Like complying with everything right I Think as long as we as we have the the Right team of advices and we do the Right things everything we are on the Safe side nice well and that brings up Another I think he brought up another Interesting point there as well Um now it's slipping from me uh I'll Just have to move on from it oh what did

You just say there because you were Because we were talking about regulation Um utility coin versus tokens well That's pretty sure Uh do what no maybe maybe if with Respect to the a ticket committee we Want to we want to establish for using Our technology for goods computations Versus yeah that was the one that got That I'm interested in is there gonna be Something implemented for censorship on The network as far as any type of work That's being allowed wonderful question Wonderful question I've been asked and And it's not so obvious the answer so As long as the problems are relatively Small We can easily push them through on the Net under the marketplace we don't even Have to look at it you know because real Problems which are basically a threat to Let's say nuclear power plants or Encryption methods or something like This are very very complex problems and They have also a unique fingerprint so As soon as we see on a marketplace Coming in a really complex calculation We will get in touch with this with the With the person or with the company who Has submitted it and we want to review It through the ethical committee so our Estimate is now the 95 of all jobs or Maybe even more are gonna be automated Simpler bonds you know they just run for

A few minutes or a few hours no problem Still a great result for everyone but I Think we can very very well identify Which are potentially threatening I mean Threatening threatening the the ethical Aspect of of the computations Awesome so let's get into let's wrap This up I don't know when the video is Going to be launched but today as of Recording for everybody that's watching This now it's April 23rd 2023 the Dynex Discord experienced a pretty severe hack Yesterday Um give us the lowdown on you know what Happened how did that end up taking Place and and what's the what are the Steps being taken moving forward to Secure that Yeah so basically unfortunately this Morning Um we got we we founded the the Situation that our Discord of Dynex Discord Um account has been have been Compromised so basically Somebody managed between Uh time frame was approximately 10 10 p.m UTC until Seven like eight eight a.m UTC this Morning somebody had full access on our Discords so basically what happened is They removed all the possibilities for Anyone for the community for admit for Administrators for for moderators for

Practice for correctly every anyone Nobody was able of commenting posting Writing Right and they post it in our name in Airdrop uh scam where they basically Invited users to click on a Dynexcoin.xyz with uh exchanging a Metamask I mean yeah level relatively One I mean all the red flags obviously But nevertheless it's really a bad thing It should have never happened And we obviously regained control this Morning everything is back to normal Um had to reinvite a few people which Were kicked out I think including Yourself yeah And uh that is horrible and and and uh The first analyzing showed it was a very Very well uh very very well structured Heck where it was socially social Engineers basically it was not really it From a it was not done because on a Technological weakness or something it Was actually one of our team Uh basically clicked on a wrong link I Would ever call it like that right yeah And uh and that means also there was not Enough training and awareness of of Everyone who has administrative rights And also yeah awareness training for Your administrators is extremely Important now it's hard on smaller Communities too because a lot of people Are doing this you know uh the goodness

Of their hearts so you're like you feel Kind of like ah you know take it easy on Them but the reality of it now these Days is you have to enforce anybody That's going to be you know Administering any of your accounts Period that they enable things like MFA And they go through some sort of Awareness training right well yeah Absolutely and these are the Measurements we've taken so on Tuesday Is already the first the first trading For the people right we have enforced Some some other some other restrictions On on account management where we Removed administrative rights somewhere And here and there uh and then we also We're gonna for sure implement it 24 7 Monitoring of on Discord and also with a Possibility some sort of like a like a Hotline which is I mean some of of our Of uh it either it's me or or somebody Else from our team needs to be needs to Have the red phone and if that Rings Doesn't matter if it's four o'clock in The morning or not you know it needs to Be taken care of right for example so Yeah but in multiple finds it so so all These escalation procedures are Currently being put up we're also gonna You're also gonna publish a postmortem And analyzes exactly what happened why And what we will do because we we think Transparency is key here right people

Need to know what's happened why why it Happened and why it will not happen most Likely in the future anymore Uh only this court was was obviously Affected none other no other system was Affected nothing there was no virus it Was really a socially engineer Tech but I must say they knew exactly the the the On off patterns of the admins they knew It's Saturday nights they knew Everything I mean yeah it was that was Breakers had that had been prepared for A while Yep and I mean that's pretty common uh Especially in something like Discord Where it is easier to learn about people As well so Um social engineering is crazy these Days you got to be extremely careful but Thanks for that run down Um thanks for coming on uh definitely Got to learn a lot more about Dynex I'm Super excited to share this with Everybody on my channel so hopefully Everybody has a better understanding and I look forward to watching the project Grow and seeing where it goes from here So thanks for watching anytime anytime Happy to talk again let's do it again For sure all right thanks for watching I'll see you next Tuesday thank you sir Today's sponsor is myself I recently Launched a crypto mining e-course at son Of a tech.com and it includes nine steps

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